Our First FapTurbo Evolution Forward Test
In all the excitement yesterday I forgot to mention that I also bought a copy of the unevolved version of the FapTurbo MetaTrader robot. I thought it would be instructional to compare its performance alongside the far more expensive FapTurbo Evolution, to discover how much better the new "serious robotic system" compared to the decrepit old "MetaTrader child's play" model.
Having parted with my credit card number for the second time that day, I followed the instructions in the manual and opened a demo MetaTrader account with Steve et al's recommended ECN broker, FXCBS. Apparently this stands for "Forex Central Brokerage Services" and is the trading name of the Fienex Group, who it seems are based in the British Virgin Islands rather than the Bahamas. As I installed yet another version of MT4 onto one of our VPSes and then went through the FapTurbo activation process, little did I realise how limited the capabilities of the original FapTurbo robot actually are. Take a look at the results of our first original FapTurbo forward test:
Whilst the Forex MegaDroid appears to have a leaky memory it does at least manage to do its sums and place some trades from time to time. So far FapTurbo has been unable to do that. For some reason known only to itself last night it tried to do some division but failed. Then it threw a tantrum and gave up in disgust at it's own incompetence.
We're pretty sure the original FapTurbo should have traded last night, because the shiny new FapTurbo Evolution robot certainly did. We tried it on the EUR/GBP pair to start with, and with the aid of its top secret ultra advanced arithmetic processing unit it managed to do some sums and place two imaginary but nonetheless profitable trades. Here is our demo account statement for last night:
| Trade ID | Trade Date | Instrument | Primary Amount | Prim. Cur. | Price | Secondary Amount | Sec. Cur. | Current Price | Current Sec. | Sec. Cur. |
| EUR/GBP | ||||||||||
| 12565742 | 15.07.2009 21:10:53 | EUR/GBP | 100 000.00 | EUR | 0.8586 | -85 860.00 | GBP | 0.85905 | -85 905.00 | GBP |
| 12576769 | 15.07.2009 21:34:07 | EUR/GBP | -100 000.00 | EUR | 0.8593 | 85 930.00 | GBP | 0.85905 | 85 905.00 | GBP |
| 12579955 | 15.07.2009 22:05:42 | EUR/GBP | 100 000.00 | EUR | 0.8584 | -85 840.00 | GBP | 0.85905 | -85 905.00 | GBP |
| 12588661 | 16.07.2009 02:05:57 | EUR/GBP | -100 000.00 | EUR | 0.858 | 85 800.00 | GBP | 0.85905 | 85 905.00 | GBP |
| 0.00 | EUR | P/L 30.00 | GBP | |||||||
| Currency | Balance | Open P/L | Equity | Rates |
| GBP | 0.00 | 30.00 | 30.00 | 1.63970 |
| USD | 100 000.00 | 0.00 | 100 000.00 | 1.00000 |
| USD Equivalent | 100 000.00 | 49.19 | 100 049.19 |
As you can see, we are not in MetaTrader land anymore. We are not dealing with micro-lots, and this is certainly not child's play. The Dukascopy minimum lot size of 0.1 corresponds to 100,000 euros. That is one full lot in most people's language. With the large amounts of imaginary currency Dukascopy were manipulating on our behalf in two trades, one a winner and one a loser, we managed an overall profit of £30.00, which currently works out to be $49.19. Our bottom line, visible in the screenshot above, worked out to be rather less than that though. Dukascopy pretended to charge us commission of $10.17. That's another thing you don't often see in MetaTrader land.
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Comments on Our First FapTurbo Evolution Forward Test
I bought FapturboEVO. ( FAPTURBO Evolution ) Was one of the few lucky ones. I don't want to hurt these guys because i'm an online seller and i know how damaging things can be. They did refund me all of my money too no haggles.
The robot lost money, big money every session in every currency.
Ironically, it's Dukascopy that seems to still have a problem anyway because their spreads are huge at times just like any other broker or worse out there.
Nothing special about Dukascopy whatsoever
Anyhow, I'm bummed because i believed this would help my financial situation… but after years of buying EA's, regardless of the cost, I'm giving up on EA's altogether. They just don't work. Eventually you hit consecutive losing trades that are so huge they wipe you out.
Some of the backtesting you see done out there is with Stop Losses that are 300 pops and up. Any EA with a stop loss that big will hold onto open trades in losses forever and only report winning trades in the short term.
In summary i don't think the FAPTURBO team is aiming to hurt anyone, in fact they really do have good intentions. But building a robot that can really make you rich is a moonshot.
Hi RC,
Thanks for your comment(s). Please forgive me, but I've moderated away the duplicates.
It sounds like you've had a particularly bad experience. I don't suppose you've got any evidence you can share with us that will prove how awful FapTurbo Evolution is? Personally I prefer hard evidence rather than hearsay. Then if that seems convincing I like to do my own research before I come to any conclusions.
Sounds like you've given up on wasting money on EAs forever, but maybe you'd like to test some of ours? They don't cost anything. Sure some use big stop losses, others cut their losses short, some even have no stop losses at all!
I have to admit that I thought the FapTurbo team were in it for the money. Is that a good intention? I guess taking money that people can afford to lose doesn't really hurt anyone.
Building machines that shoot for the moon does sometimes work you know. It's the 40th anniversary of one of them.
Cheers,
Jim
I sort of agree with RC…I haven't found a decent EA for sale so far. I think the issue is with the stop levels they use. If you have a system with a 4:1 loss to win ratio..you need an 80% strike rate just to break even. It will only take a few extra losses outside of the historical loss average to make the system a losing one.
Hi Jason,
I sort of agree with you and RC. However our EAs are not for sale, they're free of charge. Why not give our minimal version of the Turtle Trading System a try on a demo account and let me know what you think of it? It certainly doesn't use small profit targets with large stop losses.
Jim
certainly will do when I get the time.
I have the same results as RC using FAP Evo. I started running live on 7-21-09 stopped on 8-3-09 ending balance 9791.51. The problem I found was with Dukascopy.
1# Their spreads were at times during the Asian session wider than conventional MT4 brokers(Alpari US,Forex.com,FX Pro for compairson).
2# Their slippage is a big problem, I was getting slippage of 2 pips each way.
3# If you happen to try to close out a open order using a market order be prepared to get 5 pips slippage, so if you have 50.00 open profit and decide to close out position and keep what profits are there be prepared to close out at about BE.
4# I had demo running next to live account and demo will take about 2 times more trades as live and will close out all of those trades in a profit, because it does not have to deal with slippage problem.
5# I found that I was charged about 5.00 US RT commission on losing trades and around 15.00 on any winning trades. If there were 4 trades for the day and 3 were losers and 1 was even 1.00 winner all RT commission was 15.00 ea not 5.00 ea. This would not matter if results were as demo, but they are not even close to demo results. My results live were about 50/50 or losers a bit higher than winners.
6# FAP Evo is the same as FAP Turbo except is written to run on Dukascopy's Java platform. In theory if Dukascopy's spread was tighter and spread slippage was less that MT4 brokers it should work better than it is on MT4 platform.
My conclusion is that the broker is the problem here also the fact is more back testing has been done verses live, that being said I have seen for my self that demo is not the same as live no matter what FAP or Dukascopy people say. Slippage being the problem here you can adjust the max slippage but will find more trades will not get closed out and become losers (this doesn't matter in demo you can go all the way down to 0.5 and it doesn't change results) . I have already closed out my Dukascopy account and requested a refund from FAP people. As far as converter I thought one could at least use the converter with say Megadroid to keep equity curve flatter to up, I only got 1 trade in demo and was not filled in live account I would assume because of slippage. Also orders are only transferred to Dukascopy from MT4 so prices will be completely different as signal is generated from ea running on MT4 from whatever broker i.e. Forex.com, Alpari,FXDD etc. then duplicated in Dukascopy wherever price is there at that time. I would assume that if spread and slippage were less at Dukascopy one would be OK or better off, this is not the case and so one would be worse off.
I am led to believe that original beta testers received some different account settings from Dukascopy and the rest of us received set slippage and commission settings changes to cause a big difference between live and demo results. Sound skeptical about broker so big they do not care about being greedy, I am sure you all have your own horror stories to tell about broker experiences I do not believe Dukascopy is any different.
All this is only my opinion and what I found, not long enough you say.
I am not willing to risk any more of my funds on live untested results at a 1 full lot minimum when I stopped using FAP Turbo 3 months ago because was barely making a profit after losses with activated broker. FAP has not stopped working the brokers where everybody was trading it at have made it no longer profitable by manipulating spreads during Asian session . Find a broker trade it for however long it is working and stop using it there.
Then find another and do the same. The problem here is FAP's activation policy 1 live account per purchase.
What is Gordon Geko's phrase?
"Greed is Good".
Good Luck
Jerry Kim
Hi Jerry,
Thanks very much for your detailed comment. As you may have gathered from other posts on this blog, I'm not prepared to send $10,000 to Switzerland without much better evidence that Evo + Dukascopy = Profit. Your experience makes it even less likely that that will happen now.
I'm sure the debate will continue about whether widened spreads in the small hours of the morning are due to "manipulation", or "lack of liquidity". Whatever the real reason, the end result seems to be a distinct absence of profits for users of "scalping" EAs that produce bunches of similar or even identical orders during the Asian session, however big their broker.
Here at the Trading Gurus we disagree with Gordon Gecko. We think Greed is NOT Good!
Cheers,
Jim
That is a great point that was mentioned above.
I am with a broker (FXCBS) that has very low spreads, cause they make their money charging commissions.
Usually their spreads are less than 2, however once the asian market period starts, it can go as high as 6.4 on all of the Fapturbo scalping pairs, preventing Fapturbo from trading at all.
I would love to know if this is due to "manipulation" or "lack of liquidity".